The God Debate

Lupo Nero By Lupo Nero, 21st Aug 2013 | Follow this author | RSS Feed
Posted in Wikinut>Writing>Religion>Christianity

This is what my mind says about God vs His/Her non-existence- A ramble.

First

Ok. I'll start with an obvious and common question: Why does sin exist?
A Christian friend said it is free will. The devil chose to rebel and God was forced to throw him out. The devil's rebellion against God was what conjured what we call "sin" or anti-god actions.
No. That make no sense. In a perfect environment. Satan being a perfect angel. Even with free will something influenced him to go against God. I have three logical explanations to this mind-boggler.

1. God created Satan to rebel so that good could exist. Meaning: Without good, evil cannot exist because it wouldn't be recognized as good. It would just be it.
-If I was God: I would not create Satan with any rebellion inside him. One can have free will without the option of evil.

2. God was a bad ruler. Not the typical answer because God is said to be perfect but it would somewhat make sense to why Satan would rebel.

3. There is a greater evil than Satan that got into Heaven somehow... and corrupted Satan and the angels that followed him.
-This answer is actually my most favored one. The first answer makes no sense because how can a perfect God create a being with evil tendencies. I mean, I think we can all agree that putting evil into the world was a bad move.

Logically. If I was the all perfect, all wonderful creator of the universe, I would create beings like me. A perfect world with perfect company. No death, no pain, no rape, etc.

In summary: I get why Adam and Eve sinned. They were tempted.
Why did Satan sin? What motivated him to go against God so strongly.

My issue with most Christians is that they will never give me a straight answer. I will get:

"It doesn't matter, you just gotta trust in Jesus." Me: Um..what? The origin of the destructing force of mankind doesn't matter? That is what we call a copout ladies and gents.

"God is all knowing and all powerful. Just trust in him and have faith." I'm sorry again, but no. If God did create me he did a very bad job. If he wanted me to blindly follow him and reject all logic: why would he allow these complicated questions to enter my zany brain?

Dear Christians, If you don't know the answer thats ok. Just say it. I respect that, but don't try to create some copout diversion to take my attention off of the question. If you don't know the answer and are realizing how big of a question this is will you question your God or just trust that all the pain and suffering in the world happened for glory to your savior...or something.

Second

Why is the entire human race cursed because some naive naked people ate were tempted by a cunning snake. LYING DID NOT EXIST. HELLO! Of course they are gonna be tricked into eating it. Even if you told them not to. They are like newborn babies or martians on a neptune and FOR THAT you doom the entire fucking bloodline of mankind?
I swear, if I go to heaven and those two idiots are not there I am gonna have some real issues with you God.

Of course. My mistakes are my own, BUT if they never ate the apple I would have never even been capable of sinning. I'd be perfectly sinless.

Next: Why did you allow Satan to enter your new perfect world? Once again does not seem like a good move. Unless you intended for your creation to fail. Which they were bound to.

The whole book just confuses me. God created sin, so that we would fall and would need his savior to save us from his hate for sin. WTF. It seems like God is playing a sick game. I am not saying he definitely is. I am just saying it is all bullshit or I am missing a huge part of this whole Bible story.

Closer

When you say: A lot of religous documents written before Christ's coming were scarcely close to what he did a Christian will say: "The devil knew, he is the great deceiver."
Ok. So along with giving the devil the power of seduction over God's creations he also gave him insight on what Jesus was going to do.

Once again Bad move.


Please Christians. I'm begging you to either open your eyes or confront these issues I am having with what you believe in. It all seems to make no sense.

Thank you.

Lupo Nero

Tags

Agnostic, Agnostic Humanism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Atheists, God, God And Devil, God And Human Kind, Science, Scientists

Meet the author

author avatar Lupo Nero
I am nineteen and in school for creative writing in entertainment. I believe writing should have no limits or standards, and the true essence of my poetry is the freedom of imagination

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Comments

author avatar Sivaramakrishnan A
22nd Aug 2013 (#)

We do what is right and we know what is right. When in doubt - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I never differentiate according to beliefs or even no beliefs, color, gender etc. That leads to a blissful life - do what is right and accept the consequences with humility. There is no point in semantics as none has seen God! If anyone says he/she has seen God, nobody is willing to believe him/her anyway! siva

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author avatar Mark Gordon Brown
22nd Aug 2013 (#)

That was the funniest thing I have ever read, especially the part about the entire human race being doomed for something Adam and Eve did while essentially "children" in the garden of Eden.

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author avatar Rathnashikamani
23rd Aug 2013 (#)

Your debate and questions are interesting.

And there appears to answers for every question.

Those who realized God can give an account of how they realized but cannot directly show you.

God has to be felt within one's own heart and everywhere.

People, who asked the questions as you have asked, had their answers but could not explicitly explained how they got their answers.

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author avatar Lupo Nero
23rd Aug 2013 (#)

I think it is a little naive to believe something to be true based off of a feeling. Especially something as groundbreaking as the origins of the world and the character of the creator. I am not a non-believer. I am just seeking answers.

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author avatar Rathnashikamani
23rd Aug 2013 (#)

The Creator has no character just as pure water has no smell, taste or colour.

There is no non-believer any where in this creation.

There only believers who believe in something or the other.

We often talk about the origins of the world when we cannot even know the origin of our own self.

If one is able to find out the origin of one's self, then the question of the origin of the world might be easy to answer.

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author avatar Jamesvansteel
25th Aug 2013 (#)

Personally I believe in God, the timeless and infinite creator unfathomable nor directly understandable by mankind in his current manifestation. I believe, as we are created in his (their?) image, man is a spiritual and eternal being too, although limited in his consciousness of this shared divine nature with God. God is the ultimate source of all existence and non existence, the fountain from which spirit flows and he gives being and life to all things/entities. Angels, man, animals, demons...
The gradation of divinity for me is a continuum with God as the source of all existence and his creations not being separate from him but literally him in distinct but mutable capacities of consciousness regarding their true identity. Man cannot exist separate from his creator because God is all things, but our physical manifestation clouds our understanding of our oneness with all creation. Here free will develops because, though God gives us life/existence we can choose to accept that or not.

The gods spoken of in the bible and other spiritual beings such as angels, demons, lucifer, are non corporeal in the sense we understand, as they exist in relation to their distinct consciousness of their oneness or separateness from God who creates (present tense) all beings and is all that there is. Many people discuss the spiritual realm with anthropomorphic spacetime terms in order to understand them, but God is not bound by these conceptions. He is all always, nothing has power without him.
For me this means that everything is God, from the electrons in my body, to the thoughts in my head, from the stars in distant galaxies to the forests and creatures of earth because nothing can have existence unless he wills it. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. His creations are experienceable separate from each other and him as he has given them power to do so, and they have no existence outside of his will/power. Even satan is God...
But as his creation to whom God gave free will, satan has chosen to regard himself as equal to and separate from God as he was given great power and authority through his divine consciousness. Lucifer is described as God's greatest angel who fell from grace, where grace to me is a consciousness of our oneness with our infinitely loving creator from whom all power and glory comes. Man, when he dies from this physical realm has his vision cleared and the truth of spirit is revealed to him.

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author avatar Understanding God
8th Sep 2013 (#)

Interesting answer.

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author avatar Lupo Nero
25th Aug 2013 (#)

That is the best answer I ever heard. Well said and thank you. I am still wrapping my head around some things you said here but I understood most.

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author avatar Understanding God
8th Sep 2013 (#)

Satan did what he did because he wanted to be like God (Jehovah). He was jealous that God had subjects under him, and Satan wanted what God had. He wasn't satisfied being a high angle, its called envy and greed. Because of his rebellion against God, he was named satan the devil, (liar, deceiver). God made angles with the same qualities he has, including free will, just as he did humans. Who wants to control a bunch of robots? not Jehovah

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